tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9202126750651218782.post6839438041765365926..comments2023-06-01T01:45:21.544-07:00Comments on fallen sparrow: If Andrew Sullivan Wants To Do It, It Must Not Be A Sin, Ctd.Omaha1http://www.blogger.com/profile/17906834802115018347noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9202126750651218782.post-54214018736930135072010-08-14T08:07:48.128-07:002010-08-14T08:07:48.128-07:00Peter, I am striving to understand your viewpoint....Peter, I am striving to understand your viewpoint. However, I am left wondering why Andrew, from his position of influence, would be motivated to air this "debate" if he did not feel that the value of monogamy was questionable. Is not the lack of a robust defense at least somewhat equivalent to an argument against? Perhaps there is a difference in degree, but when he says that "our task is not to deny our nature," I perceive an attempt to rationalize behavior that he wishes to engage in, or has already engaged in. <br /><br />What do you think is Andrew's view of the value of monogamy, given his writings on the subject?Omaha1https://www.blogger.com/profile/17906834802115018347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9202126750651218782.post-60927639886878890652010-08-10T21:53:50.599-07:002010-08-10T21:53:50.599-07:00Your original post does not claim that Sullivan fa...Your original post does not claim that Sullivan fails to offer a robust defense of monogamy. Rather, you claim that he is arguing against monogamy. For this, you cite his airing of opinions that differ from his own. <br /><br />It would make as much sense for me to claim that you are claiming that monogamy is a quaint, outdated notion.Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9202126750651218782.post-75287464427438856572010-08-10T02:56:59.865-07:002010-08-10T02:56:59.865-07:00Here is a quote from one of Andrew's posts tod...Here is a quote from one of Andrew's posts <a href="http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/08/the-unique-quality-of-lifelong-heterosexual-monogamy.html" rel="nofollow">today</a>, concerning an article by Ross Douthat:<br /><br />"I'd like to start a response by saying that he has conceded many secular points: that the life-long, monogamous heterosexual nuclear family is not natural and it is not the default definition of marriage in world history. Abandoning these defunct arguments - defunct because they are transparently untrue - is a helpful throat-clearing for which I'm most grateful."<br /><br />Characterizing the ideal of monogamous marriage as unnatural and a "defunct argument" does not appear to me to be a robust defense of same.Omaha1https://www.blogger.com/profile/17906834802115018347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9202126750651218782.post-47618283038444602722010-08-08T13:06:30.991-07:002010-08-08T13:06:30.991-07:00Sullivan aired a debate about the topic. Nearly al...Sullivan aired a debate about the topic. Nearly all of those links go to what other people wrote. <br /><br />Sullivan's own writing on the topic hardly sounds like an endorsement of infidelity:<br /><br /><i>Somehow, we have to find a balance between what is natural and what is moral. This isn't easy. I find the attempt to separate them completely unpersuasive - but I agree with my reader that there's a lot of cherry-picking going on in the conflation of the two as well.<br /><br />For me, original sin becomes much more comprehensible through a Darwinian prism. Our DNA is full of things - violence, selfishness, abuse, hatred - that are perfectly "natural" from an evolutionary point of view, but desperately in need of restraint when combined with humankind's formidable pre-frontal cortex and its increasing capacity to inflict damage of planet-wounding proportions. We are neither beasts nor angels, but as time goes on and our capacity for damage increases, we'd better try reaching for the angels more persistently.<br /><br />Our task is not to deny our nature, but to channel it, with God's help, and through practice, to better ends.</i>Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9202126750651218782.post-5189531561450299862010-08-08T09:21:24.851-07:002010-08-08T09:21:24.851-07:00Your post needs a link or a cited quote from Sulli...Your post needs a link or a cited quote from Sullivan.Wincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15002449963597087316noreply@blogger.com